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Author Topic: Striking against a taller opponent  (Read 2689 times)
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« on: August 11, 2005, 01:13:08 PM »

Anbody got any succesful strategies for striking with an oppponent that's taller and has a longer reach?
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Jim McRae
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2005, 11:34:43 PM »

I confess, I stand 6'3", so it's not often I have this problem (though I did have a 6'4" student for a while).  However, I get asked this question a lot so I'll give you my take on the issue.  

As a smaller fighter, you are at a disadvantage, obviously, when you are closing on a taller figher, since as soon as you break the measure (the "safe distance" at which you can't be hit), your opponent can usually take you out with straight punches before you can land.  The keys to getting inside are head movement, broken rhythm, and counter punching.  You want to wait until the taller fighter fires on you, slip his strike, and push-shuffle in to a range at which you can strike.  I encourage shorter fighters to immediately counter a taller fighter's jab by slipping to the outside and throwing a hard jab to the body (assuming you are in the same lead).  Typically, only after you have landed the body (or groin) shot will you move upstairs to hit the head.  

Head movement consists of two types: (1) a "long rhythm": at long range, keep your head moving slightly from side to side in an unpredictable manner (like a kali stick); (2) a "short rhythm": at short range, your head movement will become more exaggerated.  This can be offensive, where you slip your head off to the sides with every strike you throw, or defensive, where you slip, duck, bob and weave, or snap back to avoid incoming fire.  There should never be a time when your head is still, and the closer you are to your opponent, the more it should move (until, of course, you hit a clinch; you can stop moving it then  Very Happy ).  

To drill this, have a taller partner wear boxing gloves and step in with a moderate-speed jab to your head (assume you are both in a left lead).  As the jab comes, parry-check it with your right hand as you push-shuffle in, level change, and jab him in the body.  Follow up with a right hook or overhand to the head (which your partner can block with a salute or cover for safety).  Do the same on the other side with the cross.  Make sure after your combo that you angle out to the side to which you slipped, usually with a push to the shoulder to check his near hand (in other words: don't step straight back!).  You can do a similar drill using a bob and weave against hooks.  A student of mine, Burrelle, is about 10 inches shorter than me and is really good at using this to get inside my punches.  Once inside, it is hard for me to counter strike effectively against him, so I either have to clinch or angle out to a longer range.

In any case, your mantra should be this is: let him lead, make him miss, close the distance, and make him pay (starting downstairs first)!

Hope this helps.  There are many other good drills like these that help to solve this problem, but this is as good a place as any to start.

Temet nosce,
Jim
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Kerux
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2005, 06:20:47 AM »

How about the clinch.  I am 5 10 and all my friends are 6 2".  I feel like my "control tie up" lacks control.  


We were sparring the other day and I got clobbered alot from a tall person in my class.  He got an arm free and rained blows down on my head.  Now he was hitting the top of my head, but I still don't feel like I am controlling people with underhooks.  Especially big taller people.

It seems like certian positions are for certain body types.  But I don't know which are for which.
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2005, 12:20:38 PM »

Excellent response Jim.  The only thing I would add is to make sure the low shots are to the groin when you spar or drill to ingrain that as the primary target.
    For the clinch, you should skip the underhooks and go for bodylocks and single legs.  The neck will be too high, the underhook will be difficult, but you won't even have to change levels to get into the bodylock.  
    Always be ready to get that tight overhook too, as your taller partners look for their underhook.  You will go far with these three clinch moves.  Aloha!
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Inirie
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2005, 02:37:31 PM »

This is the best topic ever! 5-6 150 and my usual sparring partner is 6-1 205. Can anyone talk more about the clinch. I usually do a bear hug to the take down.

Peace
Reggie
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Kerux
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2005, 02:42:23 PM »

Thanks BR.

That makes sense.  I am trying to learn all the positions, but sometimes I don't know when sparring to abandon something because it is not feasible, or if I should keep trying it till I learn how to do it.

We made up a game that is fun.  We train on a basketball court.  And after we review the basic positions we play "Sumo".  Two people get in the key under the basket and just try to push the other guy out.  First to three wins.
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Jim McRae
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2005, 02:09:47 PM »

Quote from: Inirie
Can anyone talk more about the clinch. I usually do a bear hug to the take down.


I heartily agree with Burton’s suggestion: work the body lock and single leg takedowns.  Also, consider learning some judo/jujitsu throws to round out your arsenal.  Shorter fighters are at an advantage here because their hips are lower, and thus in a superior leverage position.  Shelton, who is one of Burton’s Associate Instructors here in Honolulu, is excellent at using sweeps, reaps, and hip throws in the clinch, with or without a gi.  Whenever I work clinch with him, I have to be careful because his hips are in a prime position to throw me while I am trying to work my “tall man’s game” of snap-downs, arm-drags, over-/underhooks, etc.  It’s a good thing I know how to break-fall!

Also, use your bearhug position to work to the side or back if your opponent resists the bodylock takedown (a side suplex is often easy to pick up).

Temet nosce,
Jim
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Kerux
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2005, 02:47:27 PM »

This stuff is actually helpful.

today we did boxer vs wrestler and practiced entries to clinch.   Basically the entries were passive entries and just plowing in.  I tried just going for legs, but I was too far away.  So then I would plow in and drop my elevation.

We did these movement and timing, but not much energy.

I learned a throw a few years ago from the side.  Basically you hugged real tight and barely lifted to get a very slight elevation then once the feet were light you just sort of swung the person to get their feet out of the way and down they went.  Is that a side suplex?  Or is like professional acting (I mean wrestling) where you turn the guy in the air?
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Jim McRae
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2005, 11:12:06 AM »

Yes, that sounds like a side suplex.  Here are a few sneaky tricks that I like to use to make it as effective as possible:

(1) Dig the floating rib:  Assume you are on your opponent's left side.  Grip your hands, palm to palm, just under his right floating rib.  Pull inward and upward, squeezing your elbows together.  This causes discomfort which usually makes your opponent lean into you to get away from the rib-dig, which lets you unbalance him more easily.  An alternate grip is to grab his left wrist with your left hand and his left forearm with with your right hand (both palm down).  Here, you pull his forearm into his floating rib.  It is not as painful, but it does keep him from breaking his fall with his right arm.  If this is too slow, just bearhug his right arm in with his body.

(2) "Dog" the leg: As you get your grip, make sure your hips are several inches below your opponent's waist.  Pretend you are an adolescent male dog and drive your pelvis against his thigh, pinching slightly with your knees to secure his leg.  When you pull against his ribs as in #1, think about rotating his weight first onto his left leg and then onto your hips.  The moment his left foot leaves the ground, do this...

(3) Bump the knee: As soon as your opponent is off the ground (could be  an inch, could be a foot), use your right knee to bump the back of his legs.  This knocks his legs forward and out of the way so that he cannot post effectively.  As your right leg comes back down, make sure to step back with it and torque your hips fiercely to the right to toss him to the mat.  Make sure to release your grip on the way down so that your arms aren't trapped.

Temet nosce,
Jim
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Inirie
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2005, 11:36:48 AM »

Nice! Thanks for that!
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Kerux
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2005, 05:25:35 PM »

Jim,

If you're ever in the mainland give me a email.  I would like to invite you out to teach us how to do that more properly.  Maybe we could talk some philosophy....


Nice post.
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"Somedays it just doesn't pay to gnaw threw the leather straps..."  Emo Philips
Kentao5
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« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2005, 01:23:51 PM »

Hi all,  being only 5'6' 146 lbs. myself with 90% of people I have helped train being bigger and taller, here are some things that have worked for me:
1. A rear hand parry and front hand shot to the groin, body and head move to the outside for side body lock or takedown
2. From the inside, not quite clinch, an over hand shot to the head
3. Knees to the groin will help lower their upper body for neckties.  Remember to use your weight & lats and not just arm strength to bring them lower.  
Finding out what is workable and what is not, is what it is all about.  Keep experiminting and "absorb what is useful."
Later, Ken
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Jim McRae
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« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2005, 05:14:45 PM »

Kerux:

I usually make it back to the mainland about twice a year and am most often found in Tennessee, Georgia, Texas, or South Carolina (all of the various relatives live there).  Soon, I'll be back permanently, though I don't know where yet (since I'm finishing my Ph.D. and applying for professor jobs this semester).  If I'm ever in Indiana, I'll be sure to drop by for some training and philosophical discussion  Very Happy .  Do you know how long a drive it is from Nashville (it looks deceptively reasonable on an atlas)?

Temet nosce,
Jim
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